Interview: Collector Carl Thoma On Not Having Regrets

Carl and Marilyn Thoma with (from left) Robert Wilson Lady Gaga: Mademoiselle Caroline Rivière2013, and Andres Solano Portrait of Ana Josefa de Castaneda y de la Reguera1776. Photography by Tera Howard

Carl Thoma is 77 years old, a billionaire and one of Dallas’ most prominent art collectors. With his wife, Marilyn, whom he met while studying at Oklahoma State University, he has amassed an art collection remarkable not only for its size but also for its geographic, historical, and stylistic breadth. Thomas’s holdings span a wide range of disciplines, and include Japanese bamboo pieces, Spanish portraiture, Native American art, and a wide range of digital art. The latter is currently Karl’s favorite genre: “I’m drawn to the direction art is heading. Experimental, digital, time-based work that redefines the boundaries of the medium,” he told the Observer.

Most Dallas art lovers are already familiar with Toma Foundation Through the Dallas Art Gallery – her most recent exhibition, “The Presence of Absence: Embodied Portrait,” opened in conjunction with the exhibition last April. The building at Cedar Springs dates back to 1921, and the elevator that transports visitors to the foundation’s headquarters dates back to the 1950s, yet the installation art that greets guests as they enter the building is very contemporary. In the adjacent gallery, separated by a glass wall, 18th-century portraits look out at the viewer, creating a dialogue between past and present.

This is the third exhibition the foundation has presented in Dallas and will remain on view until next year’s Dallas Art Fair. The show succeeds in bringing together a very heterogeneous and cohesive group. Whether through the lens of digitalization, indigenous voices, or post-war Western artists, it explores questions of individuality, authenticity, and self-determination, featuring works by artists such as Robert Rauschenberg, Hito Steyerl, and Jeffrey Gibson. The sparkling rosé from the couple’s own Oregon vineyard, Van Duzer, served at the opening, undoubtedly enhanced the experience. I met the attentive and committed Foundation staff working alongside Thomas at the Foundation’s headquarters. Carl showed me one of his favorite works at that moment, Talk shit to my jaguar face by Eamonn Orr-Giron (2024), a colorful geometric painting that explores indigenous sacred objects from the Americas.

Eamon Or Geron, Talk shit to my jaguar face2024. Metallic and flash paint on canvas. Photography by Joshua White, courtesy of the artist James Cohan, New York, and the Carl and Marilyn Thoma Foundation

Thoma’s establishment has only been open since 2023, two years after the couple moved from Chicago. However, it is as if Dallas has already become a “Tomma City,” in the words of Taylor Mayad-Powell, the museum’s publicist. Both of her clients, the Meadows Museum of Hispanic Art at SMU and the Crow Museum of Asian Art, are showing works from the TUMA Foundation this year. “Spectacles of Power and Faith” opens on August 23, 2026 and brings together 63 paintings of colonial South America. This is a passion project for Marilyn. With a total of about 250 pieces, it is one of the largest collections of Spanish colonial art outside of Latin America. Meanwhile, The Crow will present parts of its Thoma Japanese bamboo collection at its Dallas Arts District location next November, which is also one of the largest collections in the world, with about 300 pieces.

unknown artist, Our Lady of Bethlehem Cuzco with the donorXVIII century. Oil and gold on canvas, 86 ¼ x 63 in (219.1 x 160 cm). Cuzco, Peru. Carl and Marilyn Thoma Foundation Collection, 2013.43. Photo: Amber Shields Johnson, courtesy of the Blanton Museum of Art, University of Texas at Austin

There seem to be multiple superlatives when it comes to Thomas, which makes the couple’s move to Texas, where everything is bigger, all the more fitting. Carl explains their motivations behind the relocation as follows: “Dallas is one of the fastest-growing cities in the country, and that energy was attractive. A community that is actively shaping its future, with a strong, collaborative network of collectors, institutions, and supporters of the arts.” Was this step worth it? “What we found exceeded our expectations,” Carl says of the city. “The sponsors here are ambitious and open-minded. There is real room for experimentation.”

Speaking of art patrons: many of them cultivate an aura of exoticism, projecting an image of instinct-driven decision-making. Collectors at this level are often known to be obsessed with a particular artist or haunted by a masterpiece they passed on before its value rose. On the other hand, Karl makes the acquisition of art seem like a calm and precise matter, methodical rather than emotional. When asked about his favorite works of art, he replied: “Like children, there are no favourites.” He describes his wife’s and his own collecting habits as “straightforward: we collect what we like,” and adds what I could have guessed: “We don’t collect according to the art market.”

When I asked Karl about his artistic dream that he was pursuing, he told me that there was no such thing. He also has no regrets about the pieces that got away: “We make our decisions carefully and with real intent. When you approach it that way, regret doesn’t have much room to take hold.” Karl, co-founder of the private equity firm Thoma Bravo, seems comfortable with his decisions – a somewhat unusual state of affairs for someone working within the volatile, competitive and often exciting environment that is the art world. Pragmatism and stoicism are not traits often associated with collectors of this stature, but whatever the origins of this approach to art curation, it is hard not to admire it. For Thomas, collecting is “a responsibility to ensure that experience [of the arts] It is not reserved for a few. One of the first things Collections Director Megan Robson says about her boss is: “It should be illegal to buy art and not display it to the public.” For Karl, collecting is a kind of mission: “You become a serious collector when you understand your role as a host, not as an owner.”

Installation view of “The Presence of Absence: Embodied Portrait” at the THOMAS Foundation in Dallas. Center: Yinka Shonibare, The eighth refugee astronaut2024. On the right: R. Luke Dubois, Hindsight is always 20/20 (Series, 2008-2009). Photography by Alexandra Hulsey

Is there still room for imagination in the Touma family? “The real dream is to achieve it [the collection] Carl admits he is accessible, seeing him travel to museums regionally, nationally and internationally, reaching as many people as possible. The couple also oversees the Thoma Scholars Program, which provides access to higher education to “promising rural and first-generation students with financial need” across northwest Oklahoma, west Texas and eastern New Mexico. Through their partnerships with Texas Tech University and Oklahoma State University, Thomas covers attendees and provides “mentorship, leadership development and long-term mentoring,” says Karl. “Education is at the heart of everything we do. Building the collection is only part of it. The most lasting work is sharing it and helping the next generation find their own way,” he concludes.

Carl and Marilyn have been acquiring works of art for more than half a century: they began collecting immediately after graduating from Stanford University in 1975 and today own more than 1,700 pieces, with museums such as LACMA, the Museum of Contemporary Art Chicago and the Dallas Museum of Art borrowing from their collection. They don’t seem to be slowing down either — in addition to maintaining an exhibition space in Santa Fe with rotating displays, they recently launched “First Fridays” at their Dallas establishment, where the space is open to the public on the first Friday of every month from noon to 3 p.m.

However, it’s not just the couple’s commitment to philanthropy that makes them compelling. The strength of their collection lies in its deliberate focus on lesser-known artists and generally overlooked artistic areas and periods – Japanese bamboo, portraiture from the Spanish Americas – and in its accessibility to the public. The Toma Foundation is a huge asset to Dallas, and fortunately, Carl has no regrets about moving here.

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